I have had a proper read through this now. Here are my thoughts.
Im pretty sure at best the Eldar are the worst 6th ed codex. Perhaps even worse than Chaos marines in terms of useful units.
HQs
Farseer and Spiritseers are the only decent HQs. Pretty much all the special characters are over priced. All the relics are rubbish, beyond some possible uses for the wing thing that allows a super run.
Avatar is over costed and nothing special. Greater daemons without wings are a bad idea. Autarch is kind of okay, nothing spectacular. He will die horribly vs any proper melee Lord. The only real use I can see is give him a jetbike and either a fusion gun or a reaper launcher.
Warlocks I kind of like. Since you get free powers and don't need to pay for them. However you do have to cast them now. On fairly shoddy leadership.
Ancient doom is kind of poor. How many slaanesh armeis are out there? Battle focus is possibly good, possibly average. Its certainly not bad.
The Warlord chart is bad. Absolutely nothing stands out as good. A lot of it is lame.
Troops
Dire Avengers are MORE expensive, despite being worse. No the false rending on the guns is not great. If they had their ability to increase rate of fire as well, then maybe they might be acceptable. I suppose the clue is in the name.
Guardians. Well they got better BS and WS and I think Initiative. They did not get Tau fire warrior better, and they cost the same. However they are less terrible than Dire Avengers and get at least reasonably costed heavy weapons. The combat guardians are still bad.
Jetbikes are good. Cheaper and same as before from what I can tell.
Rangers seem awfully expensive for t3 models with sniper rifles, and cost even more when path finders. Did GW not learn from over pricing Waywatchers? Clearly not.
Wave Serpent is kind of a battle tank and not a transport now. Ive seen suggestions it should be using its shield to attack, but then it will open itself up to dying a lot more. Seems very pricey but I suppose it does now have the improved BS along with all the other guardians.
Elites
Wraithguard. I like. They got cheaper and now have weapon options for something which appear to be d-cannon flamers. Expect to see a lot of these, more so if the Iyanden suppliment is any good.
Wraithknights. "Combat" troops with 1 attack base. For more than chaos terminators. I think not.
Scorpions. I kind of think these got better. Mandiblasters got turned into hammer of wrath that works every round, where as the Scorpions claw is decent expecially with the strength boosting exarch power.
Banshees. Still too low strength to reliably kill power armour. Not as good as scorpions at all. Banshee masks now worse.
Harliquins. A bit odd. Veil of tears is back as it was in the old codex, but you need to cast it. Still expensive. Will die in droves should you fail to cast the spell or the enemy gets to shoot them. Not as good as scorpions.
Fire Dragons. Huge price increase. Improved saves. Still good value in all honesty.
Fast Attack.
Wow, finally got to a slot where there is competition for slots!
Swooping Hawks. Became better, and cheaper. Still have haywire grenades, fly and their guns are slightly better.
Warpspiders. I think they also became better. Against tanks their guns are better. The only real downside is most units can now "jump" away with the shoot/run option so their own gimmick is not so good.
Shining spears. Became considerably cheaper. I think otherwise they are the same. A very decent unit now.
Vyper. I think they are too expensive for how fragile they are. They can however use the laser lock rule, but since their other weapon isn't very good, I don't see many of these being used, especially given the other fast attack options are good.
New aircraft. I know one isn't in fast attack slot, but I am including them here for completion. Both are the lowest armour in the game going and will die. Too expensive by half. The Crimson hunter Exarch has perhaps something going for him, but hes really quite expensive. The Wraithfighter thing, I really just dislike. Terrify power is nothing special.
Heavy Support.
Dark Reapers. I quite like them. They are slow and purposeful and can have krak missiles. In some absurd fashion they are unable to take skyfire missiles, unlike marine and chaos marine devastators. Reaper exarch will need a mortgage to buy his gear and skills as per the last edition.
Warwalkers. I like. Powerfield makes them a bit tougher, and they can get some mileage from the laser lock.
Falcon. Probably the worst battle tank now. Out classed by the Wave serpent that doesn't take up a slot.
Fire Prism. Its pretty good, but pricey for a one gun tank. Due to deaths from glancing, rather than penetrating hits, the prism cannon will likely survive with its gun in tact. A solid choice.
Wraithlord. Still good. Can now take two heavy weapons without having to twin link them. Honestly I think this is better than the Wraithknight.
Wraithknight. Stupidly expensive jumpjet monster. Has high toughness, the same as Wraithlords, but will need to sacrifice one of its two big guns for a shield for a much needed if quite poor invulnerable save. Oddly you can't choose a mix of weapons, you have three combinations and that is all you can pick from. Can take two identical shoulder heavy weapons. Wants to take scatter lasers, so you can use laser lock on the main gun you have left with the shield.
Night spinner. Became worse I think. I don't really like it. Just take a fire prism.
Support platforms. Still good. D-cannon is expensive, but possibly very scary. All D-weapons are very decent.
Good info.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI think you need to reread your Codex, there are some flaws in your post. Also I disagree with a lot on your post.
ReplyDelete1.)Eldar HQ are huge, if pricey. Farseers got a bit of a nerf but are still great (now you can still twinlink 2 units if you take prophecy. Or Furtune two if you roll lucky), the Phoenixlords have some real gems (Karandras is a freakin' MONSTER with 6 (on the charge) strength 8 ap 2 attacks on initiative 7 + his improved hammer of wrath + Plasmagranades (means striking always on initiative when assaulting. F u cover)! That's huge! Jainzar is also a beast; Remember you can attach Phoenixlords to any unit now, not Aspect specific. Maugan Ra+Dire Avengers (giving him a 5+ invuln), JainZar in a 10 men Council and all fun stuff like that. Oh yeah, infiltrating Dark Reapers thanks to Karandras (yeah I know its silly, but I'm trying to make a point here)!
2.) Battlefocus is awesome, giving your guardians effectively a 15" range and Dire Avengers 21" (approx. W6=3). Or move into cover/out of los. Also Warwalkers have it.
3.) Dire Avengers are kinda meh, but not for the reason you listed. Shuriken weapons weapons on 21" means shredding any Monstrous Creature. They are meh because for the same points you can take Guardians and they are good. Battlefocus on a heavy weapon with a warlock for 145 points and 20 shots of rending. That's far less than a Tactical Squad and they will easy win a shootout with those.
4.)Jetbikes are cheap. And fast. Same as before but cheaper.
5.) Warlock Powers can be (although I agree with you that their Leadership is a problem) abusable. 10 warlocks for 350 and thats 10 rolls on the chart. if you get the right number 3 times you can improve your (nonexistent) amorsave or much cooler if you attach a phoenixlord: Improve your run. Imagine that: a unit Sprinting 1d6(rerollable)+12" and shooting after that. Or Charging. Or if they want to get away shooting and then running 1d6(rerollabe)+12". With a Jainzar and 10 men council and a bitty of luck (say 3 times number 5) that's a Threatrange of 34". Even if you don't roll the right numbers (which is unlikely with 10 rolls), you still get a beastly deathstar (buff up old Jainny to streangth 7 why not? Or everyone to WS 7 and her to 10. Even Characters now hit her on 5's). No matter what you roll really it is gonna hurt. And most of the time you have enough Warlocks as a bit of fodder in the front rows (put your conceillocks there). The only way to make that better is to try and keep them near cover (3+ or even 2+ coversaves). I only wished they could take a serpent. bye the way: serpents are the best transporttanks in the game. Supershield and jinx and a whole lot of firepower.
6.) Both flyers are Assault. Both are kinda meh imo, the bomber more so than the fighter. They are very pricey.
7.) Vypers dish out 6 Rending strength 6 shots per round. For 50 Points. For 5 poins more 3 of those are ap 2. They have BS 4. What's not to like?
8.) Fireprisms: remember that though they are mostly a onegun-tank, this one gun has 3 firing modes, making the Fire Prism very adaptable.
9.) Wraithknights cost as much as two barebone Wraithlords, but he gets free weapons. And a Jumppack. Most of the time he will tank fire and die quickly but those are all shots not going on your other vehicles. Poison weapons counter him hard though (Hormagaunts are his biggest threat). Also you can combine some of the weaponry: Scatterlasers, Starcanons or Shurikens, 2 choices (though he can only fire 2 Weapons each turn). I wouldn't even go for the shield because often you can get a similar "good" coversave.
10) The reason Dark Reapers don't have Anti-Airmissles (the Exarch can take them though) is: They ignore jinx. One or two hits of the missles is often enough to to kill a flyer. Remember to twinlink them. Or put them with an aegis, they still ignore jinx if they are firing the gun. Exarch with BS5 5 , 4 (more like 5 thanks to their ability) twinlinked strengh 7 shots. Yeah, that's a dead flyer.
Hi Awesomotron2k,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your reply. I wrote this article a while back and admittedly I may have been a bit harsh. My actual unit by unit reviews paint a much better light on the eldar than this which I wrote when I hadn't played so much.
I don't think Farseers are bad. I think they are the best HQ. There are a few good builds otherwise with Autarchs that are worth looking into.
I am not saying Phoenix lords are bad. They plainly are not. They are however overpriced. Compared to say Typhus in the Chaos codex, they are laughably poor value. The Avatar is about the same points as they are. Asurman has some potential provided he gets the reroll 1 to saves warlord trait.
Guardians are never going to win a shootout with marines. To suggest otherwise is plainly stupid. They have pistol ranged guns. As you cross the table the marines will mow them down. You could put them in a wave serpent but they go up in cost dramatically, and there are better units to give transports to.
Jetbikes are good. Best troops choice in the codex and better than most troops in most codexes I think. I am pretty sure I already said this.
I like the idea of a super warlock council rather than adding to individual units. But that is maybe just me. You would want a lord with a decently low AP weapon to join them though.
The flyers are too weak. Nice model let down by terrible defence.
I like Fireprisms. Much better than it used to be. Vypers I feel are going to die very quickly, like marine landspeeders. I can't see anyway around this.
I think the shield and suncannon is the best way to roll the wraithknight. The basic version with two d weapons seems undergunned, though landraiders and other tough vehicles won't like it.
I would give Reaper exarches Tempest launchers still. Their biggest issue is the fact that HS is crammed with all sorts of good choices.
Thanks for your fast reply Marc,
Deleteyou are definitly right about the flyers, but I think I can math it out for you on the guardians.
Keep in mind that the 145 points include a warlock (+2 to the coversave) and a starcannon. Also maybe its me being used to some gaming tables, but in my experience I am able to provide basic area terrain cover for my guardians (thats a 3+). The following scenario greatly advantages the marines:
The Starcanon has a better range than the marines so they would be able to fire on the first turn. Lets assume that the guardians have an area terrainpiece giving them cover in turn 1 and 2, means ending 14" away from the marines deployment; The scenario being that the guardians have to move out for what ever reason; most of the time they would stay in cover and not move forward. Marines carry meltas/plasmas raising their points around 160-170(in my experience a pretty common choice. They start 24" apart.
marines turn 1: Usually they will advance, to get into rapidfire range, but lets assume they take advantage of their range, firing 7 shots of Bolters, hitting 4 and wounding 3. thats 3 3+, so lets say 1 guardian saves. No moral needed.
Eldar Turn 1: The guardians advance and run for 9 inches (closing the distance to 15" if they roll a 6" they will be able to fire their catapults; but lets assume they don't) and shoot their starcannon hitting (60%) twice and wounding twice. Assuming the marines are out of cover thats 2 dead marines.
marines turn 2: They advance 6 " (distance is now 9") and rapidfire [5Bolters+Pistol+2meltas) giving the guardians between 5 and 6 wounds of which they will save 3. Now they need to make a moral check, but if they had gone first the marines would have to do one now because...
Eldar turn 2: They move away just enough to put 12" to the last catapult and fire (5 Shurikencata, 1 Pistol and a Starcannon): About 3 Wounds one probably a rend from the catapults and 1-2 hits from the starcanon= at least 2-3 dead marines). They now run back for probably more than 3 inches, because of fleet, lets say putting 16" between them and the marines and back to cover.
Marines turn 3: 5 Marines left and lets say they got lucky and the meltas survived. Comming again into range (10" distance) shooting, killing about 2 guardians (they still have a 3+ cover)killing maybe again 3 guardians (Squad is now down to 2 guardians, warlock and the starcanon).
Eldar: The marines no get coversaves of 5+ having chased the guardians into terrain. Shooting the catapults and starcannon and catapults/pistol killing again 2 more marine (the meltas are definatly dead now, a disadvatage to the platform which you can place far back in the squad and still be in range).
So maybe the marines will now win, but not by much. If the guardians hadn't advanced and fired their canon a turn mroe, or if the marines have had to advance they would have probably lost, due to the battlefocus beeing able to move the guardians in range and then back out, leaving maybe half the marine squad unable to rapidfire, or in case of the meltas fire at all. Even still the guardians made their points value. Am I making sense?
I agree with you on the rest of you points, especially about the HS section being cramped^^. I like going with dark Reapers and Aegis though, it is a very good AA choice and still flexible. The other AA choice is Scatterwalkers imo, just because of the amount of synchro shots fired. They can take AA missles too but are way to overpriced.
I havn't run a successful tournament list with a PL, true. But I tend to stay away from most of them anywho (because at the end of the day W40k isimbalanced [ref. "Spamlists"]); But there are definitely possibilities for decent list with a PL.
I have never really liked guardians. Perhaps I should have included that!
DeleteI would have thought their best use was sitting at the back in cover firing a heavy weapon. I just can't see you getting any shuricat shots at marines. If I was the marine player, I would stay at long range and bolter them to death. If I had to close with them, it wouldn't be with tacticals. I also always gave my guardians either EML or Scats. Probably because the starcannon was overpriced tat in 4th edition.
Dark reapers are one of my favourite aspects. I am a bit gutted the exarch lost the ability to remove cover saves, as he was a 1 man marine killing machine with the tempest launcher in 4th. I am kind of annoyed the falcon is a poor choice now, especially as mine is one of the few well painted eldar models I have!
Fast attack is my new favourite section, which is why I have covered the infantry aspects already. I really want to love the Crimson Hunter, but it has the defence of an ork fighter and a price of a helldrake.
My own Eldar are likely going to shift to Iyanden as they get a better warlord chart, and better rules, just for the loss of the artifacts. Unless I desperately want the harliquin shroud, or phoenix gem, then Iyanden just seem plain better.
Then again, I suppose they can camp objectives quite cheaply and don't pay extortionate prices on bs3 heavy weapons.
Fair enough. Different playstyles. I like my Guradians.
DeleteTrue, the Falcon has lost its purpose to me, too, the only unit you would maybe combo it with is a seer council, and then: six models isn't a lot.
A quick reminder for you: Tempest launcher is still ordinance so it will ignore most cover if you place it behind and don't scatter :). And well, the squad won#t ignore cover, but they can have pinning Krak-Missiles, I'm fine with that.
I really am not sold on the Crimson hunter though. I absolutely get that they have awesome firepower, but their low armor means to me that they have to stay at the edge of the board or face bolter/shootah fire. And they can do that (2x90° turn possible). But for my purposes I really liked an infantry or mech army, and in both cases that means Warpspides. Also I like to run Vypers, again imo they are a real good chioce. They out out the same amount of firepower with shurikencanons than a Warwalker would with shurikens, at the same cost, and roughly the same defensive abilites (5+ jink vs 5+ invuln) but they are way faster. And they can take starcannons for 5 points, which is hilariously cheap for an ap2 upgrade^^.
Lastly: Yeah Iyanden is pretty good. Waiting for Biel-Tan or (if they will do it at all) Altansar.
I think Biel Tan will get a suppliment and then maybe Saim Hann. Can't see the smaller Craftworlds getting one before say a bunch of marine chapters and the chaos legions.
ReplyDeleteI think I would want a bigger Seer council than 6 models. There is really no unit I can think of that benefits from having a falcon.
My biggest issue with vypers is they have to take a shuricannon as one of their two heavy weapons. Unlike warwalkers, who have free choice on what they can pick. Starcannons lose a shot down to 2, so they are not a total no brainer. My own walkers have been assembled with EML and Scatter lasers for 4th edtion.
Warp Spiders, Swooping Hawks and Shining Spears are all very strong choices in FA. I am finding it hard to look past them taking my slots.
I thought it was barrage that did that, rather than ordinance on the Tempest Launcher. Its still an exceptionally strong weapon. However a EML may be a better choice, to use it for skyfire.
"I thought it was barrage that did that, rather than ordinance on the Tempest Launcher. Its still an exceptionally strong weapon. However a EML may be a better choice, to use it for skyfire."
ReplyDeleteoopsy, yeah you're right. I meant barrage, that's what they have :)